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Technik => Tech-Talk TT-Projekte => Thema gestartet von: danieleb am 25.05.2015 12:09

Titel: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 25.05.2015 12:09
Hi,
I have a problem with my TT reverb, when I turn mix to 0 (dry sound) it's very silent, no noise, but when I turn mix over 4 a noise is udible and on 10 it's very audible.

Tone open increase the noise (it's on the mid and hight freq)

Dwell doesn't change it

To reduce a little the noise I put the tank on the back of the case (more distant from the transformer), if it's out of the case the noise is very little, what can I try?

ps
turning the tank 180° is worst in my case, with RCAs on the front side the noise is more.
I mounted two shield on the 2 ECC and I try a cup on the transformer.

Thanks for help me and sorry for my english

Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: volvodidi am 25.05.2015 13:48
Hi Daniel,
i think it is not a good idea to fix the wires parallel with cabelstrips.
Look at the pictures on the project site.
Dieter
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 25.05.2015 14:51
Hi Dieter, thanks
I have grouped the cable after the reading this:
(http://i.imgur.com/nkFv7YA.jpg)
however I did not notice differences, all the noise depends on the position of the tank, if I disconnect the output of the tank the noise disappears, but with the input disconnected and the output connected the noise remains
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 13:13
The tank must be connected at the chassi or ground?
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Athlord am 26.05.2015 13:26
The tank must be connected at the chassi or ground?

Chassi must be Grounded = ground

Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 14:17
you mean the chassi of the tank also?
Now it's connected only by the RCAs, the bottom of the tank is on the wood of the case, I have to add a cable or it is better to shield the inside of the case?

Thanks Athlord
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Holzdruide am 26.05.2015 14:46
Hi

Look at 5. Letter - Connector Input Output - Insulated / Not Insulated Configuration

Franz
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 15:37
Hi Franz, thanks!
I mounted the medium one: 8AB2A1B

short
in 8ohm - grounded
out 2.250ohm - grounded
medium
no lock
open side down

So I think I don't need another ground, the RCAs are connected to the ground of the chassi
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Athlord am 26.05.2015 15:43
you mean the chassi of the tank also?
Now it's connected only by the RCAs, the bottom of the tank is on the wood of the case, I have to add a cable or it is better to shield the inside of the case?

Thanks Athlord

the chassi of the Reverb is typically connected to one of the two RCA connectors.
Therefor an extra grounding of the chassi is not necessary.
If you do this, then there could be a ground loop and hum.
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 15:53
Ok, the connections are right, only the two RCAs between chassi and Tank, I can't think of anything else to reduce interference, maybe a thiker shielding on the trasformer?
Other TT reverbs have this noise?
I noticed also bringing it close to marshall's transformer (putting it on the transformer's side of the head) it increase the noise
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Athlord am 26.05.2015 16:46
Other TT reverbs have this noise?

No.
It is not a Problem of the TT-Reverb!
Please check your building again,
or ask someone who is familiar with tube-amp.
regards
Jürgen
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Dirk am 26.05.2015 16:51
Hallo,

there are no know problems with the TT Reverb. It works without any noise and hum when it is build correctly.
I am pretty sure that you have a mistake in your build so please check the grounding and make sure that you don't have a ground loop somewhere.
Don't wast your time with extra shielding and other things like that. Make sure that the grounding is correctly and than you won't have a problem.

By the way on the picture it looks like that one of the resistors which are soldered to the EL84 socket has a connection to the chassis. Please check.

Best regards, Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 17:20
Thanks!
The two resistors from the 6VAC are on one side grounded to the screw whit the other ground cables and on the other isulated with heat shrink tubing.
With the multimeter I read 6.6V between the two green cables, now I'll check the others
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 17:55
B3: 255V

V2:
pin 8 : 2,5V
pin 6 :115 before R4 135
pin 1 :120
pin 3 :2,7

V3
pin 3 : 8,3

V1:
pin 8 :1,26
pin 6 :168
pin 1 :255
pin 3 :128

I think them are correct
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 18:13
In the chassi I have 2 screws for the ground, one for the main input and one to the others components:
-PSU ground
-RCAs ground (RCAs ground are connected one to the other and with the transformer)
-PCB Ground
-Jacks ground (input, output and footswitch connected toghether)
-two resistors for the heater

Ground for the dwell pot is from pcb near R11
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Dirk am 26.05.2015 19:36
In the chassi I have 2 screws for the ground, one for the main input and one to the others components:

make sure that you have only ONE star ground and NOT TWO. Otherwise you might have a ground loop which cause problems.

best regards, Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 26.05.2015 22:52
Thank you very much for your patience
I have only one star ground, the first screw is the ground from the 220, I'll try tomorrow to lift it and see if the noise change
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Dirk am 26.05.2015 23:19
Thank you very much for your patience
I have only one star ground, the first screw is the ground from the 220, I'll try tomorrow to lift it and see if the noise change

Don't remove the PE or run the amp without a PE connected !!!

Did you remove the cable ties ?

Regards, Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Dirk am 26.05.2015 23:27
and can you remove the foot switch ? Just to make sure it is not the switch itself.

Best regards, Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 27.05.2015 00:55
Ok, I don't remove the ground.
Yes, without the footswitch the noise remains.

The only ground not from the star ground is the cable from pcb to dwell pot but is in the same position of the layout
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Dirk am 27.05.2015 11:14
I have no further ideas at the moment. It is up to you to find the mistake.
Again: the Reverb works fine and was build many times yet without a problem. All reported problems had their origin in mistake in the build.

Best regards, Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 27.05.2015 11:48
Ok, thanks Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: Dirk am 25.08.2015 16:59
Hallo,

your build arrived meanwhile and we have tested and fixed it. The problem was caused by a very bad grounding. You gave used the chassis as ground and there were at least five ground connections to the chassis at five different points plus the PE. We have changed the grounding to star ground and now the reverb works fine. We have also fixed the power supply which you are using because it had a bad solder lug.

I have attached some pictures of the reverb unit. It very compact and the chassis is pretty good. I would use isolated jacks for the in and output too but there is no space left so we must stay with jacks which you have used.

Best regards, Dirk
Titel: Re: Noise with TT reverb (I think magnetic problem)
Beitrag von: danieleb am 5.09.2015 14:46
Hi Dirk, my version is the tube reverb, in my layout the grounds are one for the 220V and a star on the chassis for the rest of components, the female jacks are connected (the grounds) together and after to the pcb, it could be considered a second star, when a reopen the unit I can try to go directly to the starground on the chassis to reduce groundloops